At the beginning of each FY, I always asked, "I want to get Exceeded this year. They just plain resonate. Tech savvy yet entrepreneurship minded hence able to see things from . Despite the fact you may be totally right, you can inadvertently be viewed as a negative person.Although your bosses are probably aware of the problems, they might be overwhelmed by the scope of the situation, and start getting annoyed at you for being the person always reminding them about the flaws. The problem is you can't tell if you've done something to piss him off or if he's doing it because he has to. and hey if it backfires (eg the mgr flips), I can always take the offer at hand and leave MS.thoughts? Will there be budget? So he is looking to become partner this year on the team's work. I have only required two strategies. If you are within striking distance of level 63 in the next few years, then consider yourself VERY fortunate. I made sure I was the fastest, most efficient, and best bug fixer. Only one can emerge, and not everyone can be a senior simultaneously. Ready? And the place where MS has the most non-contributing overheads is Redmond. Sign up on LinkedIn and join the Microsoft Employees or ex-MSFT employees groups and then you'll see them posted. They have commitments to grow their employees. -- Business Transformation Executive with demonstrated experience in managing and implementing large transformation programs through all levels of the organization in order to build growth, grab new market opportunities or reduce costs.<br><br>- Building on Solid experience in Functional roles (Sales, Marketing, Delivery Operations) to drive those programs <br>- Sales Oriented Business . I am currently going to school which should help the moves to a better position. jcr said >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. However, the results show that the vast majority of dev/test/pm will make level 63 and in a reasonable timeframe. >Real HR managers from Microsoft would have just three [sic]s in a post of that length.I hope HR gets cut. on this one. It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. I know devs who got there without doing anything substantial but their manager was nice and there was no competition.In short, Level 63 to me is not important and I really dont respect 63s unless they I've interacted with them.Level 65+ is another story and are devs who have the stuff almost always.- Someone at Level 62. You're selling it in no less than eight different SKUs, (including the upgrades) and your marketing message is deliberately obfuscated to convince the customers to go for the most expensive one. Its UI is fundamentally incoherent, showing probably the worst case of design-by-committee since the control room at Three Mile Island. Sometimes i laugh when i read the armchair CEO's on this thread - there is a lot of criticism of Steve, but 99% of our brains would absolutely pop if we had to confront the complexity of decisions he makes in one day. These posts are provided "as-is" with no warranties and confer no rights. Amazon In my own experience, even after being a great developer for 2+ years, with straight 4.0 scores at that time, and despite having Dev Manager roles before Microsoft, I would be turned down on informationals for Dev Lead positions with the simple question: Have you been a Dev Lead at Microsoft? The reason: there are a number of factors of success that are common at all levels (see #6 and #7 below). Keep your mouth shut most of the time (i.e. Skip-levels will not tolerate people who are not team players.Finally if your manager is new or at your level, the strategy is the same. The education qualifications required for various roles for Technical track are: The highest job title in management track in Microsoft is "Vice President (VP)". but I have to disagree with this statement.While it is true that it is difficult for managers to say what *exactly* an employee should do to get to the next level, it *should not* be impossible to list what experiences/qualities/results will qualify him to be a *strong* candidate for promotion to the next level.And this should not be that difficult - it is just a matter of syncing up with the peer leads, and dev manager, and discussing what their perception of an L63 is vs l62. If it does, are you demonstrating success at that next level already and do people know about it? This helps us sort answers on the page. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did in some ways. And to your boss. Mini, as good as your writeup is, there is too much emphasis on this level promo business in MS, and I have seen my fair share of people that have been burnt by it. Executing on what you have now at a high rate/quality level.2. If you have an itching to talk about something else, please go here: But Mini, I Want To Talk About Posted by There were times when I was promoted more slowly than I probably could have been, but I am very happy with where I am now, and I am still growing. I was probably at risk of topping out at level 62 or 63 at one point but worked hard to change my brand and good things happened as a result. I have seen and known many of my own peers who don't get promoted because of potential but the number of people you know in the leadership team. Candidates should have a Ph.D. in Physics and a strong commitment to undergraduate education. Could somebody please confirm or deny this. You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? How accurate is this most likely Total Pay range (base + additional) of $396K-$652K/yr? Otherwise, you start getting limited reviews and your compensation goes down.Obviously there was no advice in this post, but I thought it was an interesting observation, and perhaps the company can learn something from this viewpoint. Know when your market worth changes with our verified salaries newsletter, See exactly how much your competitors pay. Because when it comes time to roll people out of the team (as teams do from time to time) this "No, never" a marker that is used to help figure out who - at I and II CSP levels - is either on-track or out. At the end of the day its about $$ and in reality levels mean nothing if your getting paid crap. If I ever do decide to come back to MSFT, I will do so as a level 68+ and nothing less. But that doesn't really help you compete when you don't know what everyone else is doing, particularily if you think you're doing well.Further, it's hard to get specific advice on how to get promoted, due to said black wall. Here are some thoughts from a L62-er who truly wants to accept whats keeping me from getting to 63 and work on it. take the time to find a mentor that is a great fit for you and the issue you're working on. Senior Account Executive | Director | Sales & Marketing. did this post dieNo, the Mini-Electronic Brain did. Don't spend so much time worrying about the next notch on the ladder: your goal should be to learn new things, to get something cool done and to find things to do that are fun for you.2. It's a lot better than folks being ambivalent about your success or failure, right? "Sad but true. If you know higher leveled people in another org, ask them to poke holes in your proposals. Microsoft, Go to company page No matter how good you are, you will peak at some point and Microsoft will get rid of you. We've negotiated thousands of offers and regularly achieve $30k+ (sometimes $300k+) increases. No one else was as good. I've also worked for great managers, and worked with great people on my team. ask around for a good mentor or go to our internal mentor site to be matched with a mentor http://mentor/Mentor/user/mymentoring.asp. And we have the budget for it. Understand not just what needs to happen, but WHY. Should I trust my manager or is this just one more of his demonstrations of poor management skills? Owning big features, knowledge about code base, ability to help your peers - irrelevant. So all you're telling me is I can't count on you so why should I? :)Then, over the next 2 years, I learned the magic of 65: it's not just about playing *well* with others, it's about making every team you work with great and helping them do their best work. >> You forgot "never ask for a promotion".This is better written as "Ask what specific things you are lacking in, which are preventing you from being promoted to the next level". So far, I haven't been successful. My experience is a constant melee of *every* single person trying to influence cross-group. Director can be applied to L65 or L66. I came in at 58 (9) and having been through a) I wish I had gone through b). If it isn't, well don't waste everyone's time building the wrong thing.When you think of it this way, you'll anticipate what your manager needs, you'll anticipate what your skip-level needs, and you'll be doing what they need even before they know they need it. Did you triangulate the feedback? I came from .NET (no longer there), and there were plenty of Senior IC PMs and Devs.Are you in Test, Marketing or Documentation? A past co-worker of mine had the same thing done to him and now there are two devs doing what he did by himself.I guess Microsoft has its reasons. It takes a little time to get on your skip-level manager's radar. What does that look like in your mind? Risk and return are related. I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. Get yourself a formal or informal mentor who is already doing what you want to be doing. Directors are usually senior principals (level 66, 67) or at Partner level. People who get stuck at the plateau are often referred to as disillusioned learners. I will mis-direct and confuse you with hearsay. What's worse is the noise this creates. Be prepared for every possible question, scenario, disaster, etc. An Australian graduate with over 23 years of experience in the IT industry covering various business natures and sizes across startups and large corporations taking on roles from full-stack development in both open source and Microsoft technology stack to architecture design and strategic roles such as Technical Director/CTO. Mgmt, MSFT levels: CEO > VP > Partner(Director) > Principal > Sr. Eng > Eng 2 > Eng 1. I just want to grow, and I am aware that it does not translate to a promotion always. Specifically, that is a tendency to try and do everything themselves, taking too much individual accountability as opposed to building a v-team across orgs etc etc.Most managers in Microsoft - in my personal experieince - are competent managers. Nothing you do is good, all you get is criticism. The downside to this view within the Microsoft culture is that you are always expected to keep climbing the ladder even if you are content with your current job and a solid performer in it. My biggest struggle has been getting good feedback on where I need to grow. Most Directors are 63 and the occasional 64. Both job switches came from conversations I had with former co-workers or former directors. Please help. Microsoft is so unique (and not in a good way) that you need to have blogs like this and focus on managing your career inside the hobbesian nightmare, rather than making good and cool software. How about a thread on the current hiring/moving freeze, or on surviving the New Ice Age? Senior level executive excelling at increasing operational efficiencies, improving . In my opinion the visibility games are intentionally or inadvertently started by GMs and VPs. If you are in office, you will have lots of experience promoting people up to 62 but after that it's a rare event. If you're saying "Ah, dude, my boss is in the way of my promotion" then all I have to say is "Duuuude, your boss is the way to your promotion." . Microsoft Corp. engages in the development and support of software, services, devices, and solutions. >> You forgot "never ask for a promotion".That's the absolute worst advice one can give to a Microsoft employee, IMO. "Now that the Annual review is approaching"You're probably too late already. The hardest work item on his place was an expression parser that the team's architect wrote for him. How long do people usually sit at L62 in MCS? Will <
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