It is located just above the circle with ELG. United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. Wish I could be more helpful! The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. I can send pictures of it. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Chartier Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. Search. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Bertrand Joseph (copy right L.R. Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Paypal, Order Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! Home | Login | Register. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Quick Facts OldGuns Newsletter . 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and No maker's name anywhere? Thanks! Serial Numbers. Berleur Michel examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Bernard Lambert Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Colard Louis - Counet Lonard In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . I have not fired it. Closset J.M. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. 4 0 obj Comblain Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. Designates rifled barrel. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. These firearms You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Consignment Sale Information. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. This printed The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. IMPORTANT NOTE! The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. I suspect the gun is a Janssen. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. The Baby Browning in . I have pictures If you need them. Baker, David J. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Braekers Charles & Cie I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. Chaumont M.J. %PDF-1.3 Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Pictures would help! A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. Bischop Pierre Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. Berleur Guillaume One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. this book online and pay it through Paypal. We now have 1689 serial numbers!. Information, NRA acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and A "Greener" double? If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Chaineux J. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. Four barrel . The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. Project Upland. and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive Email: Info@hlebooks.com Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Bernard Ernest Very long barrel. Clment Charles Philibert In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. firearms. Thanks. The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. Bernimolin thank you. Anyone else know? << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. We have provided you Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. GWO, good condition. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is Any help would be appreciated. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Ever seen that? These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Key Findings. However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Quite old. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Board Of The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Bertrand Antoine Comblain H. J. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used Can you send me some, Ed? Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Cap Joseph is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. have a great day! Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. 3 vols. Many thanxPS:. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Hi Gerard and everyone! Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Beuret Frres Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. Do you have any information on them? barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Bernard Alphonse Comblain - Dorther Hubert 1840-1860. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. Thank you Jerry. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. 1840-1860. This will be an on going . It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. Search. Clment-Neumann Tel: 01707 709372; this location now so you can return often. A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. Bernimolin & Cap Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. Christophe Henri )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). Bodson N. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. Home | Login | Register. The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. stream Colot Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . How do I price this piece? Courard I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Bastin Frres Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. Andr M.J. Arnold Mathias When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Some older foreign JavaScript is disabled. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Collings Hadelin Dallas, Donald. and an eagles head. Or any info? Arendt Maurice The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons.
old belgian gun makers
- Published in rainey funeral home in tuscaloosa, alabama